Lauren Spierer, the 20-year-old Indiana University student who vanished last month, was seen on videotape as she left her apartment building for the last time, stumbling, tripping and falling down.
“She comes stumbling out of the elevator, trips several times toward the corner of the lobby, where she comes to rest in the corner of the lobby, falls to her knees and leans against the wall for support until a male companion comes to her aid, gathers her under his arm and escorts out of the front of the building,” a source who has viewed the video tells the Journal News.
This video is believed to have been taken at about 2:40am.
On June 16, TonyGatto.com reported on an interview with a witness in the case, who said Spierer was “completely out of it,” when she saw her with an unidentified man at 3:38am. “I had just come off work so I was totally sober. “The guy was like, can I take you home, and she couldn’t even answer.” The witness says she saw Spierer at College Ave. and Tenth St., just a couple of blocks from Spierer’s apartment.
According to the witness, who works as a manager at a local bar, Speirer was incoherent, her eyes nearly closed and at one point she fell and banged her head.
TonyGatto.com reported on June 18 that a person close to the case said Spierer, earlier in the morning, was in a “stupor” and that she “was pouring her heart out” about being drunk and high on Cocaine and Xanax at Kilroy’s Sports Bar. This source said Spierer was ejected the morning she disappeared, simply because of the state she was in.
Like this:
Filed under: News Tagged: | bloomington, cocaine, corey rossman, indiana, jason rosenbaum, jay, jesse wolff, lauren spierer, smallwood, video, xanax
It is so puzzling why her male companion didn’t just take her home to her apartment if she was in that kind of condition.
Definitely. The possibilities, as I see them:
1. The male companion wanted to take advantage of her–either physically/sexually, or financially (as in, she wanted more drugs and he could supply them).
2. The male companion was taking LS to someone else who wanted to take advantage of her. Insert any POI’s name[s] here. I don’t know enough to speculate on whom.
3. HT made it clear (either that night, or on previous occasions), that she was done with this kind of behavior from LS and that LS should party/pass out elsewhere.
4. There was someone/something happening in LS’s room that either LS/the companion/HT didn’t want her to see. (This is an interesting possibility, actually, that hasn’t really been fully explored, at least in what I’ve read. Not that the goings-on in LS’s room that night contributed to her disappearance necessarily, but a fuller knowledge of the participants/activities would help flesh out the night.)
5. The most innocuous reason: male companion was drunk/high/so out of it himself that taking LS back to his house (or another party location) made completely logical sense. Or no sense, as the case may have been, but muscle memory kicked in and made him move homeward.
What am I leaving out?
I feel like AB makes 2 very possible and very unfortunate scenarios in 1 and 2 above.
*AP that is
She had no keys.
Weren’t the keys lost enroute to CR’s place?
The fact that some–if not all–of the POIs have provided DNA samples leads me to believe there was no sexual assault committed, at least not by them. If they knew an assault had occurred, they would not voluntarily provide DNA samples that could potentially link them to any crime.
Where did you get your information in context to HT and sharing with LS that she was done with her choices? That simply is not the case. I think it is safe to say that you do not know anyone involved in this situation…
Commone Sense- that is not always true; often times a suspect will willingly provide DNA in hopes that evidence (the body) is never found and at the same time, look as if they are fully compliant.
Ah yes: the keys. Thanks, all. So where were they coming from? Had they been in LS’s room? (Who let them in, if she didn’t have keys? A tailgate in the elevator, then HT into the room? Another POI’s room?) Forgive me if I’m being dense, but just trying to discuss all the angles here.
And as far as we know, the only two POIs that have been named as providing DNA are Mike Beth and Corey Rossman. Reports have acknowledged that ‘several’ POIs have given DNA; we’re left to speculate on their identities.
As far as knowing that sexual assault took place, how could anyone be sure without finding Lauren? If whoever hid her (I’m working with the ‘accidental OD, friends freak, leave her in a well-hidden spot’ theory) was confident enough that she wouldn’t be found, they might just be cocky enough to give up DNA.
It’s too awful to even imagine.
Lizzanne, you’re absolutely right; I know none of the parties involved.
If I’m wrong (and I’m not saying I’m right…just thinking out loud, as we all are)–please correct me.
Give us information that will point TG, BPD, and LS’s parents in the right direction.
Thanks, AP, for circling back to me. I definitely do not know more than anyone else and if I were to comment, it is nothing that hasn’t already been shared elsewhere. What I do know (and nothing that will help Tony as he is already “in the know”) is that I am familiar with the groups habits. HT is/was just as involved in the said activities as LS. HT has willingly shared with the public, of who her good friends are, and who she is associated with. Now, guilt by association is a common phrase and in this situation she is/was well into the activities, not just a bystander. I believe this has no bearings in her friends disapearance. My question/observation of your post did not bear truth to that particular situation; roommates/friends/sick of habits/etc. and I appreciate your willingness to share in banter.
Tony,
I’m a former resident of Bloomington (seven years — four for undergrad and three for law school) and a former crime reporter for a major metro daily. First, keep up the great work and pressure on local law enforcement. I cannot believe this case is still cold.
I’ve been lurking for a long time as I try to keep abreast of the happenings case from several thousand miles away. I have to say, I find this latest post absolutely heartbreaking — but all too common. I lived a few blocks from Smallwood in law school and bartended at a bar near Sports. I all too often saw examples of exactly what is being described here. My heart breaks for her poor, poor parents.
And let me just clarify something: by “behavior,” I mean people who fail to realize when (or care that) a friend is incapacitated and instead leave them to their own devices.
Gah! I meant to reference “what is being described here” — this is what happens when you multitask. Apologies, Tony.
Why would they not just bring her to her apartment?? Makes no sense
Keys were at the bar. Maybe she hitched a ride in the elevator with another resident to avoid the key issue, but couldnt get to her own apartment without them/wake up roommate.
Guys, of she had a bad trip, it would not be the scared college kids taking care of the details, but THEIR suppliers, who have much more to lose if there’s a huge drug ring exposed.
Her shoes and phone were at the bar, not her keys. Her keys were found either in the ally that runs parallel to 11th Street and up to 5 North Townhomes or along 11th Street, depending on which report you read. But her keys weren’t left at the bar, so at the time she and Rossman were at Smallwood, she had her key.
As for Rossman’s memory loss…as I’ve said before, a person with access to the interviews with his lawyer has said that Rossman admitted he and Lauren went up to an apt and did “all kinds of drugs” in the short time they were at Smallwood. He told his lawyer he thinks this combination of alcohol and drugs is why he can’t remember anything around the time of getting punched. True? Don’t know. But it’s apparently what he’s told Salzmann.
So if daylight savings time was not set on the video – this would put it to 3:38ish?
I had the exact same thought.
nope, it would be earlier, 1:40 a.m.
not necadsirly true. while you spring forward with a clock for day light savings time, if one never falls back with their in October there’s no reason to adjust it in the spring. could be on point in fall and be an hour early in spring.
Wow. Gives you a different take on CR now. I’ve always had a hard time believing that a wasted LS would walk him back. It didn’t really make a lot of sense. Then she goes over to JR’s. Then goes out and back again. Okay, so they go up to her place? Why didn’t see at least get some shoes? If this happened on the upper floor? If this is true, either JR is lying or CR is. I’m still suspicious about Wolff. But can these clowns really keep this a secret from everyone for almost two months. There has to be or will be a leak. If they are truly involved.
now we understand the lawyering up and the lie detector test not given by the police. It may take a year but the rich dudes are going to eventually pay up.
The Smallwood tapes would likely tell what the sequence of events were. LS’s father saw the tape of the altercation and was the one who mentioned it, not the police, if I remember correctly, and he seemed to be satisfied that whatever happened there did not involve his daughter.
As for the tape showing Lauren stumbling out of Smallwood with someone’s help,I guess that someone is CR. That he was in better shape than Lauren, is a surprise but depending on the blow he took, and what drugs he was taking, it may well be true that he remembers little or nothing, or a confusion of things that he cannot tell what’s so and what’s not.
Are the Spierers satisfied with how the police are handling the case. They seem to be savvy and able in terms of managing this situation; better than any parents I have ever seen. It seems to me that there are some issues here with the BPD, but are there good reasons for what they are keeping secret or just the way they do business.
That they said they searched the landfills when they did not is troubling. It’s one thing to refuse to comment; another to give blatantly incorrect information.
None of this changes the case, in my opinion. CR and LS made their way to CR’s place, and LS got enough of a second wind to continue to JR’s apartment. Perhaps made an attempt home with someone at 3:38 and returned and then left again around 4:30 is what I think the scenario is. Someone saw her enroute, someone she probably knew at least marginally, and she went with him. Something happened thereafter and the person did not want ot be the one left with her. I think that person has not even come under any suspicion as POI or anything.
Where’s David Rohn in all of this?
Sleeping while his phone rings at 4:15am.
From this account of LS at 2:40 am and that of the witness who saw her at 3:38, she was all but passed out during this time. It’s quite a stretch to imagine her getting any “second wind” by 4:30. “If you stumble then I’m going to make you come back in here” JR says. Right.
how do we really know the original timeline is right to begin with? From BPD? Are we really to believe them now?
I have my doubts that LS & CR walked back as first reported now. If we want to include this new bit of info.
This may have happened like this: LS started acting weird and decided to go back to Kilroy’s to look for her shoes & cellphone. She didn’t make it. She stumbled out and CR went after her. Enter ZO and the other students involved. They see a stumbling/high LS and interact with CR. That’s why he got decked. She must’ve collapsed not long after. Near the alley … since most of her friends were involved in drugs, they had to make up something to protect themselves, i.e, not remembering, was not the last person to see her … if this didn’t happen, then why not show the videos? I think they are keeping the videos to themselves because of higher ups at the university and very wealthy donators/givers to the school … the last thing they want is something like this lingering and making the school look bad. If not, show the videos! Until then, I guess we have to go with the original timeline.
“The guy was like, can I take you home, and she couldn’t even answer.” It would be crucial to determine whether the witness is directly quoting overheard speech, or is describing observed actions (as one might supply running dialogue to a pantomimed scene between two people: ‘she was falling down, and from his actions, he seemed to be saying can I take you home’ or ‘let me help’).
Because it’s very odd, if they’re that close to Smallwood, and IF it’s a friend who knows where she lives, to actually SAY ‘let me take you home’. (If you’re on your own doorstep, a friend wouldn’t say that to you; if you’re on your own block and your friend knows that, he wouldn’t say that to you). You’d think even if they were two blocks away, he would just say, ‘come on, let’s go home’, or even ‘let me take you home’; but not ‘can I take you home?’ That sounds more like someone who doesn’t know where she lives.
I wish they could just convene a grand jury and get these questions out there so people can start helping the police before their memories fade even further. Is it necessary to have a body or even a charge levelled against an individual before a grand jury or inquest can be held in this jurisdiction?
In any case, her condition to my mind renders impossible that, as some have suggested, she left the JR residence at 4:30am in search of more partying and more drugs. I know some have suggested that she could have ‘recovered’ after taking more cocaine, but given this description, her size, and medical history, at a certain point that just seems physically impossible. (I’m about her height and I weigh more, and I start slurring my words at the first few sips of a third pint).
We were assuming it meant LS’s ‘home’, when he might have been referring to his home.
I agree the statement ‘can I take you home’ (assuming that was overheard speech, and not a supplied assumption, by the witness, of speech) is ambiguous; but I think the default assumption of its significance in such a scenario would be ‘can I take you to your (i.e., LS’s) home?’; it would be more natural to say ‘can I take you back to my place’ if he meant his own home.
But I think the police must know the identity of this person (perhaps as some have speculated, he’s the out-of-town visitor); otherwise, surely the BPD would have called in a sketch artist and we’d see posters of this guy all over the place. If BPD has interviewed him, they may be even more convinced that LS wasn’t in any condition (especially after hitting her head–on what, concrete?—so she’s on at least one drug, alcohol, she’s tiny and has a heart condition AND a head injury?)—to jump up and go out partying some more that evening. That’s why I’m inclined to think this person probably just slung LS over his shoulder and put LS in a back bedroom somewhere at the party, where her death may not have been noticed for hours. If they think he’s a stranger who put her in a car, why no sketch artist?
Yep. LE also said everyone on video is known to them. They never discredited the 3:38 witness. Only said they can not corroborate the time. Begs the question what the baseline for their time is. The cameras? They might have been off an hour DST.
Sorry, I meant to write: ‘….to actually SAY ‘can I take you home?’
I think about Lauren Spierer and her family every day. I am not going to describe those thoughts because they are sad. But when I think about the silence surrounding this case I get angry. If your not guilty of something why wouldnt you offer the information to help, especially a friend and to show you are innocent? That is why I feel these kids and very possibly some of their parents are involved.
I do not understand if you have a missing girl and a boy was staying at the apt. of the friends she partied and was last in. Why wasnt he questioned? If they were there then they are suspect too.
Why would lauren get so wasted? Was that a habit of hers?
Hamar said she liked to party and went to far this time- obviously she knows something about her habits. Did she do this not realizing how high she was, which the mixture she took could decieve her into not realizing until its too late? Or was she intentionally drugged? Or was she upset about somthing? possibly boyfriend problems as has been rumored? I also asked my daughters who are college students, if all the guys they party with know where they live. They both said that not all their guy friends know exactly where they live. So perhaps Corey didnt know which apt was hers. She was obviously too inebriated to tell him. She didnt have her phone for him to look up any mutual names, and maybe he didnt have their number or maybe he was too confused to think logically. (Which to me is the worst part of all cuz she was reportedly 1 floor from her apt. to safety and most of us might nver have heard of her.)
I beg these kids and parents who are involved to think about this as if lauren is your sister or daughter, who has now been missing for 7 weeks and feeling that she is no longer alive and lying somewhere without the respect she deserves. Rosenbaums imagine it is _____. I am being respectful by not mentioning their names. And Bleznaks imagine it is ___________. How would you feel if you knew these kids know about what happened to your daughters that you love and have birthed and raised every day is gone and you are fearing she is dead and laying somewhere in a bag or in a field! Do the right thing all ready!! It will be excruciating to come forward but remember that life is a school-it is not all about success money and power. In the end you and your children will be going to G-d. Every day we are using G-ds divine energy, are you using it responsibly? The Spierers are really special people to not be blowing up by now. I studied with a Chassidic Rabbi for a while and I learned when you use your money to have a nice home or clothes and you do it to make you feel good about yourself so you can perform better-not to be better than other people its okay to use it for material things. To use your money and power to hide information or the truth when it pertains to another life you are doing a great sin. Be careful how you use your money and power.
It is a naive presumption to make, but I am going to go with the theory that the POIs are lawyered up and refusing to make statements about specific activities that evening because they truly do not know what happened to LS and are protecting their interests. I think if they were offered immunity and confidentiality about those activities, they would take it. Immunity only to their illegal drug trafficking which I think is the sticking point here. I cannot imagine that if indeed they do know what happened to LS that they would not say so. If they are afraid, a lot of it is because of the media coverage that anyone who had anything to do with the disposal of a body, which I don’t think is a huge crime in the eyes of the law. I thinkt the police have been told these outright by all of the attorneys and that is why they are not giving out names and info as readily. The publicity really shut down things. I think the worst that happened to Casey Anthony was not the jail or other legal consequences but the horrid publicity that has made her name synonymous with Lizzie Borden and other notorious characters. No one wants that. The drug issue can have very serious federal and state ramifications on the legal front and that obstacle is one that is possible to remove.
But the thing is, the POIs very possible do not know anything that would help get Lauren back. It is very possible that she did walk off at 4:30 AM and met up with someone who is not even in the picture anyone has of the evening. The miniscule chances that what happened to little Leiby Kletzky did happen to him. What are the chances that the parents would let him walk alone for the first time that day, that he would get lost, ask who he did for directions, and that someone would be that sick? That LS ran into an acquaintance or someone just looking for opportunity on the way home is far higher, given that she is an attractive blond in compromised condition at a time of day where hardly anyone is about.
‘I cannot imagine that if indeed they do know what happened to LS that they would not say so’.
Unfortunately people in similar circumstances behave like this all the time. Recall to take just one example, the case mentioned previously on this blog of the NJ student frat brother who was undoubtedly placed in a trash chute. (He hit his head on the dumpter and was unable to extricate himself, and ended up in the local landfill). The students responsible never talked, and no one was ever punished.
‘If they are afraid, a lot of it is because of the media coverage that anyone who had anything to do with the disposal of a body, which I don’t think is a huge crime in the eyes of the law.’
They may have been advised by their parents and their lawyers to say nothing. (‘What fault is it of my precious child that his path happened to cross with this drunk girl? We can’t allow this to ruin my precious child’s life’, etc.) Time passed. Even if you don’t think speaking up immediately is not a ‘huge crime in the eyes of the law’, it is morally blameworthy, and it becomes more so with each passing day.
‘It is very possible that she did walk off at 4:30 AM …’
After taking more cocaine? How do you ingest cocaine when you are unconscious? Do you think that it is consistent with the behaviour of young men who would conscientiously take the rap for either (a) dealing drugs or (b) dealing drugs AND disposing of a friend’s body and then lying about it, that they would supply more drugs to a woman who had passed out and who had hit her head?
So, perhaps this is simple – the videos weren’t released, by request of the parents. The videos depict their daughter in an unsympathetic light, which they worried would hinder volunteer and donation efforts.
If it’s the parents, they also must think there’s absolutely no evidence in the videos to help figure out what happened to their daughter later. They are still at a lost as to what happened at 5 North Apartments and/or beyond. Heartbreaking.
The videos weren’t released at the request of the parents? NO video has been released and I think it is clearly the decision of the BPD.
Sorry, let me clarify: I’m opining that the parents may have requested the videos not be released.
The Spierers have another daughter who is a college grad. They are not naive. They have made it clear that the only thing that matters to them is getting Lauren back. They want any and all information, and have indicated that they know unfortunate things were done that night. They just want Lauren. The only thing they have not done is assure everyone that no civil suit would be forthcoming for anyone with damning information, nor have BP given any immunity offers for any illegal activities that were done that morning.
The videos are not being released because the police have so chosen. I also have a hard time seeing how a small police department can spare personnel to effectively and efficiently view those real time videos thoroughly. It really takes private individuals or a much larger force that what any municipality does. Leiby Kletzy was NOT found on the videos by the NYPD but by a private citizen who took it on his own to look at the many hours of blurred video to pick out that little boy and the sequence that occurred. Once the police got their hands on the earmarked footage, the law was able to step into action. I hope the Spierers have gotten experts to examine those videos. For Smallwood, and other areas, painstaking id of who is going where can lead to valuable information as to who is eliminated by virtue of being somewhere else during those critical times when LS had to have disappeared. It is useless speculating about DR or HT when they are as alibied as could be by Smallwood videos IF indeed they have been vetted. After the lie the police told about having searched the landfills, I am not inclined to believe they have viewed every minute of the videos and painstakingly ided who was where from them.
Just want to interject something here.
A decomposing female body was found last week in NJ…just outside of Brooklyn…it was apparently stuffed up under the underpass area beneath the bricks. The police are tight lipped about all of it. The autopsy has been done and apparently they are awaiting tox results. It is in the area of Wall NJ.
I thought this was interesting.
This is the link
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/decomposing_body_found_alongsi.html
Hey Tony keep up the good work.
Do you have any theories or opinions on what actually happened?
Wow. Well, at least it’s “sort of” new news. We KNEW they were wasted. Didn’t know she (they?) were already stumbling drunk at 2:40am necessarily. I’ve done.. er um… a few of these intoxicants mentioned. I’m thinking about the falling down wasted at 2:40am, and STILL at 3:38am. Seems like one would have passed out in that time frame if they were THAT “gone”. BUT…everyone handles their drugs/alcohol differently. And, more coke could have gotten her back on her feet. Learn this, kids…when your body is saying FALL DOWN, it’s time you DO that…don’t keep trying to ADD just to keep partying. Cry Uncle and sleep it off!
Now…since I’m obsessed with the witness…I sure wish she could have a TV interview. I want to see her face, her sincerity, hear her EXACT words. Everyone surely knows that one word, even a letter that is “paraphrased” can really change a story.
I’d thought there was a chance a well heeled family could get big attorney to find and pay for a witness to tell a story like this pretty easily. But, I think witness went to police pretty early.
So…how do we get Lauren up the alley, into 2 apartments, and back around down to 10th / College (not back thru alley, or that would be on tape), in an hour? She MUST have gone to the apartments, why else would they say that and implicate themselves?
No one asked me to run this case, but I’d have witness in there looking at pics of every single facebook friend of all these kids (for ZO and AB, and for Hometown visitor – who seems a good fit for someone who migth have offered to tkae her home, but then JR didn’t want to admit that, of course…due to what happened at the end of the evening..they just had to say “um, we saw her leave and that’s the end of that).
Also…Bloomington and IU are ABOUT 20 minutes apart…give or take. Depends on where in each city. IF there really was a JR cell phone ping NEAR Martinsville at 4:00am…that would be a good fit for the witnesses statement.
LS hits head, is slung over a shoulder and helped somewhere (ZO/ABs, or back to JR and homie apt), I also still want to know if witness saw them leave those steps…in what direction. I’d hate to think though that they didn’t even give things any type of chance (is she breathing, what do we do?, etc). Because that would be FAST to be at 10th/college with a stumbling girl…but in/near Martinsville 22 minutes later having taken her to a home or car and driven there and already decided they had to dump a body. IF that was true, then I bet there wasn’t much “preparation” and there would be DNA in the trunk. Well..not NOW, thanks BPD.
AAArrrggghh! Get the witness back in. Tell the putlic the rest of us the details because KIDS WILL TALK. Get the next circle of friends telling THEIR circle things and details WILL be “outed” about that night. One hopes.
Or, again…maybe they know it all and just need evidence to get what they need to subpoena or arrest. But…doesn’t SOUND like that when they say they’re no closer now to an answer than they were at the beginning.
Bloomington and IU are about 20 minutes apart?? IU is smack in the middle of Bloomington. Maybe you meant to say that Bloomington and Martinsville are about 20 minutes apart, which would be a MUCH more accurate statement.
yeah… i was wondering the same.
think he meant Martinsville
Oh..oh…so sorry. Yes…Bloomington and Martinsville. HATE when I do that.
This new information lends more support to an accidental drug overdose.
There have been rumors that Zach Oakes apartment was raided by the DEA earlier in the school year, but there is no record of criminal charges being filed.
Could the drugs used by Lauren that night been part of a controlled buy? Would the DEA share confidential information about informants activity with the BPD if it made the DEA look bad?
What usually happens after a DEA raid? Don’t they allow the drug operation to continue and then arrest everyone at one time later in the year?
oh man…we have Tss back in action!!! Here we go with this informant stuff. Nice new name, buddy!
Concerning the 3:38 am witness sighting and the Martinsville ping …
Maybe BPD is saying the 3:38 am witness does not fit the timeline bc we have POI #1 in the Martinsville area due to the cell phone ping (and NOT based on JR’s timeline of her leaving at 4:30). Just bc JR called DR at 4:15 doesn’t mean he was at his apartment with her. He could’ve been anywhere.
Releasing the timeline based on JR’s story may be an attempt to throw off the POIs by acting like they believe them. This would be giving be BPD a lot of credit. Hopefully it’s due to them.
If Lauren was as badly intoxicated as this new news suggests, stumbling, almost passed out at 2:40 … very unlikely that she found a second wind and went to go hang out and party for two more hours. Very unlikely. In fact, I give it a 1 percent chance that LS actually got the energy to walk CR back and then hang out at JR’s for another 2 hrs. Run that by any doctor or biology professor and I think they would agree with me. So, either this new news is NOT true or exaggerated and we have to follow the incidents of the original timeline. But if this is true (and I think it probably is somewhat) then it is very unlikely that LS was able to do those things suggested earlier in the timeline.
Wouldn’t something like cocaine combat the “wasted” feeling and provide exactly that second wind type state? At least for a short period of time.
YES. YES. YES. Cocaine is a stimulant which is an upper; mixed with alcohol increases stress on heart. If mixed with amphetamines, which is slightly a waste as both have similar effect on body—this will however increase toxin levels and heart rate.
Couldn’t agree more. No way she left JR on foot at the time suggested. It would also be odd for her to walk down College when she was used to take the alley. But of course the person claiming that knew about the cams in the alley. I am even starting to doubt that she walked to JRs in her condition. The last time she was apparently on cam was towards the empty lot ….. and then there was the rumor(?) that the dogs lost her scent there?
The end of that alley and JR’s are … a small gravel lot apart (though, might have to walk around to the FRONT to enter). She’d already walked MOST of the way from Smallwood when she got to the alley. If you think she didn’t get to JRs…why would he say she did? No reason to bring himself into the fray.
I disagree. a couple lines of coke could really perk somebody up in a hurry.
Really? How many times would that work? 90 pounds … heart condition?
That’s not what the news suggests, though. It says that she was not functional/almost collapsing. When did she do the cocaine? Out of not being functional and stumbling in between the elevator and outside of Smallwood?? For the coke to act that fast, she would have had to do it then. Like I said, either this new news is exaggerated, not true, and we go back to the original timeline.
I agree with A. Heart condition. 90 pounds. No way biologically this pans out if we use this new bit of information posted. She likely passed out and died leaving Smallwood somewhere around the alley.The guys freaked and removed her. Also, I think the PD are being quiet now because the timeline is messed up. To go back and correct it now would be catastrophic on their end, and they are already getting bad points for conflicting info on the landfill search.
Yes, Bluezone. AND, BPD once mentioned being int he know of what ‘activity’ went on in the alley after leaving Smallwood. I think if LS were found the hammer would come down immediately. Otherwise we are, hopefully, heading for a Grand Jury at some point.
remember, there were “activities” witnessed in the alley-cam video.
i believe it was “activity”.
I still disagree with A and Bluezone. The new bit of info above tells me that she was out of it because of too much booze and Xanax. She would have been looking for an upper to keep the party going.
Now, whether her heart could take it, and for how long – that’s a big question.
Some other sites were saying that the “snorted substance” wasn’t coke at all and was crushed up xanax, and the statements at sports were supposedly related to railing xanax, which is another way of saying snorting. There was also a report about 2.5 bars of xanax being taken that evening. No amount of coke brings you up from that.
i heard from a friend of a friend who has inside knowledge of the case that the police found a huge blood stain when they searched the apartments at 11th and college. i’m shocked that the police haven’t turned up the heat on these POIs more. they may not be able to force them to answer questions, but the BPD could do a MUCH better job of using the media to pressure these heartless bastards to speak.
Really? PD would have made an arrest if that was the case.
Bloodstain eh? Whoa…THAT’s out of left field. By my count we have “most” people voting for OD, and a “few” who are holding out on random abduction. So now you’re adding….???…The Kitchen Knife? Was the “friend of a friend with inside information” Colonel Mustard? Sorry, don’t mean to be glib, but…c’mon.
If the police did find blood, why did the BPD not take the POI’s to headquarters to inteview them? Can’t they hold them for 48 hours without charging them with a specific crime? Whatever that blood was on, you can be sure it was removed to be tested. Would the BPD not make the apt. a crime scene also?
Now you know why Rossman got punched in the face. This should have been clear in the first altercation article (cough tony). Oakes involvement was that of a vigilante hero. Rossman got knocked out cause he was TRYING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE. He was stopped in the 5th floor landing and asked to take lauren back to her place when he refused and got aggressive he got punched.
I don’t think you’re right.
I thought I read somewhere that Lauren wasn’t even on the same floor where the altercation occurred.
I do believe that she ended up in somebody’s apartment and OD’d there. Then the person who found her had the means, connections and motive to get rid of the body.
I just don’t buy a huge conspiracy, especially one involving the police. The BPD have kept their cards close (too close? who knows?), but I’d be very surprised if this was anything more than one or two people who freaked out, hid a body and have gotten really lucky that it hasn’t yet been found.
How many like the Fifth Amendment now? You can go both ways on this: 1. Put yourself in someone’s place of being innocent and you know of a friend that you don’t want to incriminate. 2. Or, put yourself in Mr. or Mrs. Spierer’s place and your child is gone but you know if certain people talk, you can possible find her, put some closure to it, and get justice. That’s tough!
I like the fifth amendment. I like all of them. Heck, I like the whole constitution.
Amen!
Just like in “Pulp Fiction”. They had a “Cleaner”. Remember the character “Winston ‘The Wolf’ Wolfe”. Rich kids rule the world.
Harvey Keitel. “Do you see a sign outside that says dead nigga storage? No you don’t, u know why? Cause I’m not in the business of storin dead niggas.”
Reminds me of the Great Gatsby, Tom and Daisy leave others to clean up their mess and just move on:
They were careless people, Tom and Daisy–they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money of their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
- F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby, Ch. 9
Lauren’s “friends” have lawyers to clean up their mess. If you lack a soul, you can not feel guilt or regret.
Update on JW:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20110722/NEWS02/107220376/1018
by the way, just another thought – I wonder what the footage is of her as she ENTERS smallwood from kilroys-was she that wasted going in? could they have done more drugs on the elevator?
And what about the homeless man- and his report to the reporters and the police about hearing a scream in that vacinity? Was his death really an accident? seems to be quite a coincidence. Maybe it is related to cover all bases.
Didn’t the BPD refuse to verify as credible the 338am bar manager witness revealed on this site? Seemed strange then…are they sticking by that? Now what to make of their decision in relation to the new information about Lauren’s state in the videos and the search for a basic timeline? Still no word on the university’s decision about violations of the student code of ethics and what they intend to do within their sphere? What is going on?
Shhhhhhhh!
To me sounds ilke the 338 am bar manager witness story is looking more and more the real time line truth.
I agree.
(Commone Sense- that is not always true; often times a suspect will willingly provide DNA in hopes that evidence (the body) is never found and at the same time, look as if they are fully compliant.)
Read about Paul Bernardo, serial rapist and murderer. He became a POI so the police brought him in…he willingly gave his DNA while knowing it was at every rape scene. His sociopath personality convinced the cops he was a good guy, combined with his willingness to give up his DNA, put him at the bottom of the list of POI’s to be tested. When his wife Carla ratted him out 2 years later they had still not tested his DNA.
Can anyone can answer the question “why not just call it a night?”. 2:30AM.. 1 punched out kid, 1 had to much girl. I like to stick to simple questions. LS and CR seemingly both should have had enough for one night, yes? What does roomy HT know? Will she let her in without her key? Did she have nowhere else to go but CR’s. Maybe it’s just a case of trying to think with a rational mind when obviously there are 1 or more minds that were not. Peace to Mr. and Mrs. S.
Which POI is from Wall, New Jersey?
“Bloomington Police will neither confirm or deny a stumbling LS” WTH? So what’s new? Just who is allowed to watch the videos. A random journalist makes it sound pretty much like the good ole BPD would rather just leak information than actually giving it out. Knowing their past history I am fairly certain that this isn’t some crafty police work but a complete “were over our head move”.
i don’t think the bpd has leaked anything. and i bet the source for the latest lohud story is not le.
Very interesting (and laughable) article about Smallwood in the Heralt-Times this morning. Ostensibly, they are going to “clean up their act” regarding their advertising. Something must have gotten through them from the public! Included in this article, which you can access without a subscription by the way, is a little list of police/ambulance activity at Smallwoood for the past three years. One category is “drunk” — but there is no category for “coked up” or “crack activity” or anything similar. This is just one more example of how IU, and Bloomington continue to twist things to hide the truth. Silly list — worth a look, I guess.
In an H-T article a couple of days ago about cocaine use among students, the prominent quote was from a local judge who said there was no more cocaine/crack use among students than among the general population.
New news is running rampant here, and it’s not coming from the BPD! We should make our own ‘timeline’ from what is being brought to light on TG and LP and all the blogs.
1. Leaving shoes and cellphone at bar…not good. Any student in their right mind would have gotten them before leaving… Having been asked to leave, she must not have had time to go back and retrieve them. She was close enough to her apt to get another pair of shoes, why didn’t she?
2. Videos at Smallwood; stumbling out of elevator… SOMEONE (a male companion) helped her up… “gathers her under his arm”…now why on earth wouldn’t he just take her to her room? Was he one and same as male companion walking her to 5North? BPD claims to know who this person is. THIS INFO TOTALLY NEGATES CR and his lawyer’s story!!
3. ZO having been raided by DEA? Lauren’s drugs possibly “coming from controlled buy”? Was she obstructing a DEA investigation by bragging about doing drugs with these guys?
4. Rumor of Huge blood stain on rug at 10&College apts? Whoa..a whole new twist! And don’t ZO and AB live at these apts?
5. Eyewitness report at 3:38, rumor of dogs losing scent around this location, possibly because someone threw her over his shoulder? Possibly she got into a car? BUT damnit! Don’t the BPD have all this action in alley on video? Maybe empty lot didn’t show up on Video. But there are cameras scattered all over this area.
6. 3:38 + 1/2 hour = arrival in Martinsville area; “POI #1 in the Martinsville area due to the cell phone ping” and would this be the call to DR from JR alluded to around 4:15?
7. 2 other females, friends of LS, reported her missing June 3rd before JW did. I never hear much about this. What is their story? Has it been shushed? And all this stuff about HT not being happy with LS activities. Are we supposed to dismiss this also? Wonder if HT tried to stop her from going out so late, or rather so early Friday morning.
Geez! what did I leave out? And just WHO, exactly, gets to view the videos?? I want to see them. Think if I ask they’d let me see them?? I don’t think so! Who decides which info to make public and which not? Who’s in charge of this investigation anyway?
Oh and numero 8…I’m guessing that the decomposed body found in NJ was NOT Lauren, but HECK! I’ve searched and can’t seem to find the results of the autopsy and ID of said body. No news on this after July 10th…unless I’m just not that good at googling.
Can anyone add another rumored rumor? It’s very late and I’m going to do what Lauren should have done at this time…GO TO BED!
concerning #4 … if LS would have fallen and hit her head at this time, it would explain the blood. But wouldn’t there be blood in one of the vehicles? Were they searched? I would think if #4 had any validity, someone would have been arrested.
I think HT had company and either refused to let LS and CR in at Smallwood or asked them to come back later. Neither was in any shape to argue…HT knows way more than she is saying.
Whatever happened in the interim, I think the guys at 5 North decided this was JR’s problem–took her there and left her, perhaps at his insistence (if he was the drug connection). She felt no pain, simply drifted off. I think after the 3:38 sighting she was carried back to 5 North and never left that building on her own accord.
JR and his guest realized they had a big (drug) problem and guest took her off somewhere in a suitcase.
I think most of these “kids” know what happened but don’t know where she is, except for the one who took her; she could have been handed off to someone new to the picture at Martinsville too and could be anywhere.
Whatever happened, if Lauren did pass away, she probably did not suffer, and is more at peace than any of the rest of us who are haunted by what happened in this world.
JuJu- Let’s talk about number 7 (I will aso copy and paste a previous post in this same strand to help clarify a few things):
“Lizzanne, on July 22nd, 2011 14:46 at 2:46 pm said:
Thanks, AP, for circling back to me. I definitely do not know more than anyone else and if I were to comment, it is nothing that hasn’t already been shared elsewhere. What I do know (and nothing that will help Tony as he is already “in the know”) is that I am familiar with the group’s habits. HT is/was just as involved in the said activities as LS. HT has willingly shared with the public, of who her good friends are, and who she is associated with. Now, guilt by association is a common phrase and in this situation she is/was well into the activities, not just a bystander. I believe this has no bearings in her friend’s disappearance. My question/observation of your post did not bear truth to that particular situation; roommates/friends/sick of habits/etc. and I appreciate your willingness to share in banter.”
The other friend, with her boyfriend reported her missing after JW called her parents, first. The other friend has not been in the spotlight as of late however she was at the beginning (not as much as HT as she was not as involved with said activities as the others).
Doing lines of xanex makes more sense with this story than the cocaine. I can see how someone would get confused hearing ‘doing rails’ perhaps she did cocaine before or with it, but the amount of xanex explains the falling down behavior. Some people take it to party, I take it to sleep. I have known people that take to party and they always black out, but yet were going about the night and partying. I dont understand why anyone would want to do that and blackout, but some people do. This just explains more of the falling down behavior, which makes it alot harder to believe JR and CR. ALOT harder…….even if she did cocaine after that, I cant imagine it would pull her out of a xanex stupor- a alcohol stupor yes, but not xanex. I dont believe that for a second.
Tony:
I find it extremely interesting that one of the phrases Mrs. Spierer has become familiar with is “recon”
Okay, Lizzanne. I’ll let that one rest, but what do you think? Did Lauren go back to Smallwood because she wanted to go home? does anyone actually know the reason for her return to Smallwood? (I guess if someone did, they’re not talking!)
Also, is it alright to post this from FaceBook? If you don’t believe in psychics, that’s too bad, but from personal experience, I know they exist and they do recieve information from beyond our mere mortalhood. Too many are too quick to pass them off as quacks. I’m afraid that happened in this case.
Lauren Spierer: What The Public Does Not Know.
written By Marta Sosa
On July 17 Psychic Gale St john left her home in route to Bloomington Indiana to help with the search for 20 year old Lauren Spierer.
Gary Peterson from FindJodi.com had invited Gale and I (Marta Sosa of Cubanaram Missing N America on Blogtalk Radio) to help on the search. Gary and I talked about doing my Radio show from location to bring attention to the Spierer case. I was not able to drop all my commitments and assist in the search but my friend Gale made arrangements and went on the road.
Gale arrived later in the afternoon on Sunday the 17th Gary was busy with meetings so Gale decided to do her famous ‘blind drive’ with her cadaver dogs. St. John returned to the hotel later for much needed rest.
On Monday the 18, St. John spent the day searching alone with her dogs until 5PM when Don Cranfill, the Bloomington coordinator for the Lauren Spierer search met with her. Gale was taken to several sites by Mr. Cranfill, where she reported sensing something had happened at two of the sites not related to Lauren’s case. Mr. Cranfill confirmed that two murders had taken place where she sensed and she was correct in that they were not related to the Spierer case.
Lastly, Mr. Cranfill took Gale to the another location, a place where St. John had circled the day before by vehicle. This time Gale took one of her dogs, Kimber, to do a ground search and the dog indicated in this area. Gale then returned kimber to the vehicle to cool off from the heat and brought out her other dog, Simon, who also indicated in the same area. Lauren Spierer parents were called, the police were called and told about the developments. The Spierers were distraught and wanted yet another set of dogs to provide confirmation of St John’s findings. The Police declined their request saying, their own dogs had indicated in the same area several days earlier but the parents were never told and no one knows if leads were followed then to secure and search the area.
Sunday evening Gary Peterson and Gale St. John were to appear on my Internet Radio show but Gary was unable to attend. Monday evening Gale St John received a call from Gary Peterson to tell her the Spierers no longer needed her services.
I am perplexed as to why no one has reported that Gale St John was asked to assist in the search for Lauren and that her cadaver dogs indicated on and behind a dumpster in the area where Lauren Spierer was last seen.
Then Ms. St. John went on to comment on this:
Gale StJohn: pressure to step up this investigation is needed after what happened while I was there. Only the public now can put the pressure on to search the landfill.
15 hours ago · 4 people